Curse

Energizer Deth Buni · May 15, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

How this is all very unbalanced and stupid... Why alliances can have so much factions? First off by now everyone knows that it is very simple to run Supplies over and over again outside of Breaker Hollow. It takes about 2 minutes to get 400 Faction. So 1 person in and hour would be 30 X 400... 12000 faction. Lets say a total of a 100 people in an Alliance did this on average for an hour a day? 1,200,000 million per day.... If you have run this run you know it really consists of only, Charge, Sprint and Balance stance with some healing... can be done as a group also to rotate charge. This is fine but it has been rumored that certain of the high leveled faction guilds have been doing this by running macros and gaining faction while they are AFK. Considering the spawn is always the same and you dont have to kill anything, it probably would not be that hard. As well as people who AFK through Alliance Battles with macros. So unless I want to start running macros now or sitting in Alliance Battles AFK, we really all have no chance of ever catching up. This is by far worse than any exploits we saw in Prophecies. Just my view on it.... ANET really needs to make some changes if they plan on selling chapter 3...

thunderpower · May 15, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

/signed

Gaining faction from pve quests is flawed. As far as i know the kurzik side quest (Duel of the Houses) was nerfed a bit. So trapping them duelists before the midget master shouts "start" wont count as a "fair" fight. But There are still effective "exploits" to farm duelists and what will count as a fair fight.

Didn't try the supply stuff, but it seems even easier.

IMO Anet should make those quests avaialable every 20 min or more for a single player. That would reduce the amount of faction erned from those quests to 1200/hour. Wich is a reasonable amount thinking that if you win 4 alliance battles it would make it at least 3000fac/hour.

generik · May 15, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Not signed

What they should do is increase the rewards for PvP play instead of nerfing options for the PvE crowd. As you might not have known, for the Luxons there are not enough quests available for you to reach 10K before you can befriend them, so if not for these repeatables it will seriously take a long time before one can complete that one quest.

In short, buff the non bottable PvP rewards, leave PvE out of it.

Sanji · May 15, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Casual or hardcore content be damned.

Faction is what I like to call sweatshop content. Even when it comes to the Alliance PvP Battles, skill is far less of a factor than persistence and raw manpower.

Swinging Fists · May 15, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

If you have run this run you know it really consists of only, Charge, Sprint and Balance stance with some healing... can be done as a group also to rotate charge.

Yep. Pretty easy for a warrior. But lots of Rangers, Assassins, Monks, etc. making this run too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

This is fine but it has been rumored that certain of the high leveled faction guilds have been doing this by running macros and gaining faction while they are AFK. Considering the spawn is always the same and you dont have to kill anything, it probably would not be that hard.

I guess it just bothers me that you suggest that these people who put in so much time doing these runs to take Cavalon are cheating by using macros. If you want to see macros go to Elona Reach. If you want to see actual people devoting their time and effort to help their alliance, go to Breakers Hollow. In Elona, the "bots" follow the exact same path, and it's a path that no human would ever take. In Breakers, everybody's paths are different, they talk, etc... Before spreading "rumors" about bots in Breakers, why don't you go to Breakers and try to talk to some of these "bots" ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

So unless I want to start running macros now or sitting in Alliance Battles AFK, we really all have no chance of ever catching up.

TC built up most of that faction in just a few days, without macros. Why can't anyone else ? It's just that they, and the Black Blades, are willing to put in the grinding effort way more than anyone else.[/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

ANET really needs to make some changes if they plan on selling chapter 3...

/signed

StrongBow · May 15, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

i can't sign this because i signed another poll which is more serious then this, this entire factions system is not faulty just in few repeatable mission, like Breaker Hollow as you mentioned, but it's system as a whole is faulty. Have you been in aspenwood and see the iddlers?

What i think is, that making changes to only a quest is not a solution at all.
Currently the PvP guild and PvP individuals are left out since as other players stated, Number makes the difference here.

Faulty in all ways!

And i don't expect this to change...

Snowman · May 15, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

hmm, when I saw this I thought "jeesus! omg.. of course!"...

but then I thought..

"hang on, this doesnt add up!"

if what you say is true then the faction requirment on those outposts would in the TENS of millions!..

And then I thought about it more..

"how would someone profit from this?"

Running bots and macros to farm factions points is not profitable! you cant sell faction points on ebay!.. also, having loads of faction just gives access to the deep... but the people your accusing of doing this are taking people to the deep for FREE!.. even if people were charging.. you cant make a macro for that..

Sorry but the more I think about this the more it doesnt make sense, its just not worth it!.. if it was then we would see chinese bots everywhere by now.

JadaSheekStyles · May 15, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Well, I think your wack

Manic Smile · May 15, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

I'm not trying to flame your post here but seriously do you read your posts once you post them? Maybe go back and do some editing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

hmm, when I saw this I thought "jeesus! omg.. of course!"...

but then I thought..

"hang on, this doesnt add up!"

if what you say is true then the faction requirment on those outposts would in the TENS of millions!..

explain this further please...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

And then I thought about it more..

"how would someone profit from this?"

Running bots and macros to farm factions points is not profitable! you cant sell faction points on ebay!..

3 runs = 1.2k Kruzick Faction
1k Kurzik Faction = 1 amber = 2.5k to 3k gold
1 run = 1k+ gold

how's that for profit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

also, having loads of faction just gives access to the deep... but the people your accusing of doing this are taking people to the deep for FREE!.. even if people were charging.. you cant make a macro for that..

actually not busing people over to the deep is the more profitable move...take a look at the high end and tell me again it isn't profitable...

oh and yea...you can make a macro for that...hell there is LEARNING AI...AI that has the chugh power of a 5 year old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Sorry but the more I think about this the more it doesnt make sense, its just not worth it!.. if it was then we would see chinese bots everywhere by now.

yet you can get into the deep...

if it's such a bother you can come give me control of cavalon anytime you want

Kaguya · May 15, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Running bots and macros to farm factions points is not profitable! you cant sell faction points on ebay!

But you can convert faction points to Jadeite or Amber, which can be sold for gold ingame. The gold can be ebayed

McHearty · May 15, 2006, 11:14 AM // 11:14

/not signed

Ineffiable · May 15, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

"how would someone profit from this?"

Running bots and macros to farm factions points is not profitable! you cant sell faction points on ebay!.. also, having loads of faction just gives access to the deep... but the people your accusing of doing this are taking people to the deep for FREE!.. even if people were charging.. you cant make a macro for that..

Blackblade controls the deep again unless it currently changed.

As of now, if they could get a perfect zodiac drop in the deep, they can sell for 100k+++ (a perfect zodiac sword when for like 1 million earlier)

Now tell me thats not a profit, this area is only slightly harder than the rest of the game yet they can make 10x the profit than anyone else.

Thats the whole point.

Snowman · May 15, 2006, 11:46 AM // 11:46

if 100 people (ONE guild) could farm 1.2 million faction a day via bots and macros, then 10 guilds would be doing this and the requirments for cavalon would be 10's of millions, within 10 days it would be at 100 million.. and this would be just ONE alliance!!

we just arnt seing those kind of figures.

Also, yes, I didnt think about the exchanging of faction into Jade or whatever.. but again, do the math!..

1.2 million a day would equate to 1200 peices of jade being sold... PER DAY, but look at the pricing on jade..it went down to about 1k a peice, and now its going UP..

Certainly the pricing doesnt indicate a botting/macro'ing issue, the supply would way outstrip the demand and jade would be ten-a-penny.

I think your mistaking the dedication and commitment of players, alliances and guilds as botting and macro'ing.

The maths just doesnt at up at the moment, I agree there is potential.. but we are a LONG way from that and this is all very premature.

Talon one · May 15, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

o_O

ok i'm a noob at running, but i thought i'd try it out just to see what everyone is talking about. i didnt even put anything but sprint and charge in my skillbar -> 400 faction in 2 minutes. not that i'm complaining, but no wonder the luxons need 9 million to hold cavalon

Manic Smile · May 15, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

if 100 people (ONE guild) could farm 1.2 million faction a day via bots and macros, then 10 guilds would be doing this and the requirments for cavalon would be 10's of millions, within 10 days it would be at 100 million.. and this would be just ONE alliance!!

do you know how hard it is to make a good bot...no way I would share it with anyone, guildie or otherwise...not with zodiacs selling as they are

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Also, yes, I didnt think about the exchanging of faction into Jade or whatever.. but again, do the math!..

1.2 million a day would equate to 1200 peices of jade being sold... PER DAY, but look at the pricing on jade..it went down to about 1k a peice, and now its going UP..

Certainly the pricing doesnt indicate a botting/macro'ing issue, the supply would way outstrip the demand and jade would be ten-a-penny.

I think your mistaking the dedication and commitment of players, alliances and guilds as botting and macro'ing.

The maths just doesnt at up at the moment, I agree there is potential.. but we are a LONG way from that and this is all very premature.

Do you know the true value of a diamond...perfect or otherwise? Guess what the most common element on this earth is? I mea really we are all based off of it...yet it's like 3k a carrot for a good diamond...why...not because of the ammount but because what is 'supplied' to the market. Someone made a very nice statement on this...'if people would realize beyond the elite mission towns there was no point to faction other then amber then even amber would have no point'....perception is what is keeping amber high, people want those worthless 1mil+ faction sinks.

and take my crap grammar/spelling as you will...it's 2am

CyberNigma · May 15, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Not signed

What they should do is increase the rewards for PvP play instead of nerfing options for the PvE crowd. As you might not have known, for the Luxons there are not enough quests available for you to reach 10K before you can befriend them, so if not for these repeatables it will seriously take a long time before one can complete that one quest.

In short, buff the non bottable PvP rewards, leave PvE out of it.

I may be misunderstanding you, and if so I apologize. I've done both sides (and finished the game) and noticed on the Luxon side if you do all the quests you find once (except the Jade Arena, which I didn't do the first go-around) you will be able to get to your 10k (this includes opening Gyala Hatchery and the recruits/scouting quests once). I also didn't do the supply run. After the Gyala Hatchery I also earned about another 9k, after which I had to go do the Jade Arena twice to make up the remaining 10k to put me at max. During the preview, it was true that there was no way to get 10k without grinding the repeatables over and over. Now you only have to do some of them once to get your 10k (assuming you did all of the other quests available and didn't spend any).

The Kurzick side was quite different. I was able to earn my 10k on that side without doing the duelist quest but doing all the others. However, after doing the equivalent to the Gyala Hatchery (Eternal Grove Mission), I noticed there was almost a total lack of quests compared to the Luxon side. There's the primary, the Warden one, and The 'rounding up the houses'. That was it. It seemed there were several more on the Luxon side.

However, I agree with you in that they are definitely helpful to make up the difference if you accidently spend some.. Otherwise, it would suck to be a person that spends a bit, not realizing they lose both sides' worth and not having a way to get it back efficiently.

Former Ruling · May 15, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderpower

/signed

Gaining faction from pve quests is flawed. As far as i know the kurzik side quest (Duel of the Houses) was nerfed a bit. So trapping them duelists before the midget master shouts "start" wont count as a "fair" fight. But There are still effective "exploits" to farm duelists and what will count as a fair fight.

Didn't try the supply stuff, but it seems even easier.

IMO Anet should make those quests avaialable every 20 min or more for a single player. That would reduce the amount of faction erned from those quests to 1200/hour. Wich is a reasonable amount thinking that if you win 4 alliance battles it would make it at least 3000fac/hour.

Seems to only effect traps set before the duelmaster starts talking (like you beat him over to the duelists) . They also seem to still "count" but are delayed ~10-15 secs after the fight starts it seems.

Its pretty funny to see traps go off, them not all die somtimes, and then a few seconds later a mess of traps going off again.

MasterThrawn · May 15, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

You know I did this run a few times a couple days ago, but tried it last night, and I believe they nerfed this, unless I am doing something seriously wrong. There are all of these Mesmars now that slow you down and degen you to death right at the beginning. I died like 5 times in a row... am I just not skilled? Nah - that can't be it

Aeros · May 20, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Energizer Deth Buni

How this is all very unbalanced and stupid... Why alliances can have so much factions? First off by now everyone knows that it is very simple to run Supplies over and over again outside of Breaker Hollow. It takes about 2 minutes to get 400 Faction. So 1 person in and hour would be 30 X 400... 12000 faction. Lets say a total of a 100 people in an Alliance did this on average for an hour a day? 1,200,000 million per day.... If you have run this run you know it really consists of only, Charge, Sprint and Balance stance with some healing... can be done as a group also to rotate charge. This is fine but it has been rumored that certain of the high leveled faction guilds have been doing this by running macros and gaining faction while they are AFK. Considering the spawn is always the same and you dont have to kill anything, it probably would not be that hard. As well as people who AFK through Alliance Battles with macros. So unless I want to start running macros now or sitting in Alliance Battles AFK, we really all have no chance of ever catching up. This is by far worse than any exploits we saw in Prophecies. Just my view on it.... ANET really needs to make some changes if they plan on selling chapter 3...

I disagree with you completely. As a member of the TC alliance guild, i know for a FACT that none of our alliance members have even used a macro, and saying such that we do is slanderous towards us. We had to put in the TIME to do that run and we deserve the reward.

As for the black blades, i know not of what they do, they are very secretive. But our alliance has put an end to the rivalry with a 1.5 million lead over bkbd...

All i'm saying is that we have to put in the time to do faction runs, alliance battles, quests etc....and you call us exploiters? If you had taken the time to put that much dedication into the pve game, then i am willing to bet, you woudl not even make this an issue. I don't think that breaker runs shoudl be nerfed at all. Instead, i believe that the alliance battles rewards should be much greater.

Big_L · May 20, 2006, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Before the nerf, it was very clear that these repeatable quests earned faction MUCH faster than any alliance battles. You are missing the point. Factions and city control was supposed to be about the merge of PvP and PvE which was a huge goal for Anet. So how is running a 2 minute quest to farm faction and owning cities to unlock the elite missions involve any PvP or any skill whatsoever? Its mindless, its farming, and it ruins the game. Merging pvp and pve is the whole point. If the best alliance is 1,000 PvE farmers who have never stepped foot in a pvp arena, then the system is flawed and needs to be fixed.